Forest BB

The digital grapevine of The Forest.
It is currently Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:27 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:43 pm
Posts: 608
i was chatting to some friends aboutdoing this. i got them to write there idea. here it is. it could be hot. and mean a good axtra earner for forest.

"We would like to use the small room located behind the walk in freezer as a control room to be linked to the cave (regardless of where the cave ends up) which will be used as the live room. The recordings would be run by myself, sten and james clark, both studying sound production at the jewel and esk valley college. We suggest that we would rent the cave at the hourly rate(£5p/hour) and pay a percentage of our earnings to the forest in addition to cover the rent of the control room. we only require space big enough for two chairs and a desk, so using a currently unused space would seem ideal. we aim to provide industry standard and affordable facilities, a bit like the cave and darkroom. we would buy a shitload (one thousand smackers) of pro audio equipment to make us hot (industry standard (like kate moss)). we would be happy to give technical spec if anybody requires it. we have both volunteered in the forest doing sound/kitchen stuff. we dig the forest.

we would also be available to record forest projects as volunteers (for free). we can also do mastering.
these are just our preliminary ideas and we are very open to suggestions/ideas of how such a project could be realised.


what do you think?"



is there a better place to post this?if so someone feel free to move it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:57 pm
Posts: 769
Location: your moms house
could be exciting.
definately potential and a nice little earner
me likey...its just whether its possible.
could definately open up some avenues for the thousands of musicians lurking in our woodland!

_________________
It's like God's vagina!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:43 pm
Posts: 608
oh and also. james' father is a building and can do it all for free. they are cool to do the work to make this happen. i say yes! go now!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:43 pm
Posts: 608
i mean of course that his father is a builder far more than he is a building.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:43 pm
Posts: 608
ok so now that is decided. we need to know what forest think is a fair percentagfe cut to charge.

here is an example/gcse maths question.

sten and james charge £320 for 16hrs recording time
(£20pounds per hour)

after giving £80 to forest for the cave hourly rate they are left with
£240 which is £15p/hr for them.

if forest then hoicks %15 of that the forezst makes a further £36 totaling a whopping £116 for 16hrs of forest time.

leaving a £204 for team recording (£12.75 p/hr) which for two people seems small. who knows what they think.

----------------------------------------------------------------

maybe we should strike a deal which says. you do the building work. you pay for cave rental and we only 5% of there dough for first 5 months of something.

with this new maths forest makes £92 for 16hrs cave time

james and sten make £238 (£14.87 per hour)



what do peeps think?


--------------------------------------------------------------------

i think this project is good because it will up the cave revenue quite a bit. it will mean more in house recordings at affordable prices. they will do the work. they are good peoples to be encouraging to be around the forest. they will lure in new peoples like dropping blood into the water.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:57 pm
Posts: 769
Location: your moms house
sounds much fairer.

_________________
It's like God's vagina!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: the studio
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
hi guys, can't tell you how glad we are, tickled pink in fact!
we off to the bank today and we are attempting to purchase a sweet vintage analogue 24 track mixer to go with the digital one. exciting. The first step is the building work obviously so we'll speak to james' dad and see when hes free.
speak soon

take it sleazy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: moving on
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
hi everyone, me and james are moving on full steam ahead with preperations for this studio. Everything seems to be coming together niceley and the money is pretty much secured. There have been no more posts since it was agreed that it could go ahead but we would appreciate some more feedback just to make sure we are still a ok! We are just gonna continue until some one says stop so message us if have a problem! tops.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: time and space
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
hi, i've heard it on the grapevine that people are a little worried about how much time this will take away from the cave's primary role, i.e practice space. Have no fear bout it, i think that in all honesty the chances of us getting more than one person to record a month(16-20hrs) is minimal. If however this did happen we have no problem with limiting ourselves to a set amount of time per month/week so as not to intefere. i hope that clarifys stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:43 pm
Posts: 608
ok peoples last chances........thsi project is a go go


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:24 am
Posts: 1373
Here I got a message from Sten:

Quote:
Hi. i think you have heard about mine and james plan for the cave. Altough we have raised a considerable fraction of the amount we need there is some more bits and bobs we haven't got for sure. We were wondering if we could apply for any of the forest grants? We would prefer the quarterly one(300?) to buy a full drum micing set from shure, its 282 pounds. Obviously this would stay with the forest as forest property but would be under our tenureship to start with to garuntee its use! if think this is worth persuing could message me back with the next steps. cheers


I think the costs should be paid for by the cave's budget and not the grants budget. It doesn't really fit in with what the quarterly grant is for.

Related to this...why are these guys raising their own money to pay for this? Maybe it's a good idea they are or maybe not. Why not the forest pays for and 'owns' this recording studio thing outright? How much will it cost to get this happening all in?

_________________
the more you think, the more you stink


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
hi, me and james are investing £2000 - £2500 to start with, this is just to get the prelimanry recordings while we get used to the equipment, going up to £3500 - £4500 for the finished project. We also use a tower computer which we've already own and wasn't all that cheap! Although there are obvious benefits to this being a forest project, the technicalities of having multiple people operating the stuff would be possibly nightmarish. The stuff is complex and tiny things can have enormous consequences and, as any one who has used pro-audio equipment will know, it can take an age too go through every variable that could cause a recording session to stop. If people were paying to use this stuff then time is of the essence. Any support, from the cave or otherwise, would be welcome and the reason i suggested mics was because that is something that can be used without much prior knowledge. For example, i know that the is a 12 track recorder at the forest which could be used by anyone, along with some shared microphones? We are happy to invest because we will need this equipment for years to come and its transportable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:24 am
Posts: 1373
ok. interesting. 4.5 grand is too much for the forest - it's the kind of thing we would have applied for a grant for but even if successful it would have been many many months from now before seeing the money.
so if you guys are happy to go ahead and buy the stuff that's fine.

just seeing what the situation is....
it's great that you're making this happen.

so going back to the mics thing.
does the forest want to own a set of drum mics?
the only thing i can think of is that we could use them with the 8-track.
if so we could buy.
if not then not.

another question.

what do you guys think of the sound proofing in there?
do we need to get going on the false ceiling?
are you going to create booths??

my knowledge is quite limited but is there a lot of work to be done?

_________________
the more you think, the more you stink


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: it
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
hey, the mics could also be used for live performance in the hall upstairs, though that could be overkill on less rocky gigs!
bills told me about there being a lot of sound bleeding into the forest from the cave, i'm not entirely sure how much we'ed have to do to totally sound proof it but there are cheaper ways than a false ceiling. The biggest offender for noise issues are your bass frequencies and that can be solved with whats called a bass trap. This is a stack of wooden blocks shaped to fit the corners of a room which absorb the worst of them. To stop the treble frequencies i would probably suggest foam ceiling tiles which would cost about £200 for enough to cover the ceiling but thats if you buy official sound proffing for a studio and much less if we find a good source. Add on to that the labour (free!) And it should only cost about £3/400.
The vocals booths will be made up with 3 2x1 metre panelsin a square with an open side to add a bit of life to the recording so no worries there.
There is alot of work to do but in if we do it in stages it just means we will gradually introduce new options to what we can succesfully record i.e it will be totally capable of acoustic stuff/singer songwriter on a guitar and small ensembles straight way leading up to full space attack prog super rock for 100 peice electric guitar orchestra. maybe.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:35 pm
Posts: 1084
It's really just the bass that escapes to the other rooms - that's what makes it particularly annoying actually, as it usually doesn't sound that musical on its own...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:08 pm
Posts: 4934
Location: edinburgh
if you can soundproof that room. forest would be very happy and we would give you the rewards of a true sound warrior.
please.

_________________
-----
www.ryanvanwinkle.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: cfgh
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
if a sound based spirit quest is required of a warrior what can he do but accept?! I'll start putting a qoute together over the next couple of days so bear with me and i'll come back to you guys on this one.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:49 am
Posts: 1231
It is so amazing that we will have a recording studio in the forest...

I have one major concern:
at the moment, the cave functions well as a practice room, offering a much needed facility to the community, with shared use this facility will be reduced .. and I suppose if the studio is working well, might get removed.. as in... the room will be booked by the studio and the practicalities of this (i.e. Don't Move the Mics) might mean that there will simply be no space for a practice room, this would be a great shame.

Maybe we could extend into another room? and have a practice room and a recording room. this is not such a wild idea..(we have a spare crappy drum kit...)

I know this project is going ahead and that is great, but as a community we need to look out for and support all Artists... even Musicians who need more practice!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: multi tool
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
hi, i really don't think theres anything to worry about. It will be standard practice to have recording sessions finished and cleared up in the time we've booked. I've already said in this thread that i think that the priority is the practice rooms and we'll limit ourselves if there is a high demand to make sure it stays like that. Also the forest is a multi faceted community centre and i don't think that the best use of space would be to have two rooms dedicatde to music when theres so much other stuff going on.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:43 pm
Posts: 608
yes i agree. it is important to preserve the cave as a practice room, but i don't think that the amount of time sten and james can offer is enough to make it only useful for recordings. they both study for example. if and when booking the cave becomes problem perhaps then we could look into expanding into another room?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:12 pm
Posts: 2729
Location: there and then
Yes, good points Bill and Sten. This all sounds very gooood.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: building
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
hi, so we've hit our firstproblem, altough it is far from insurmountable. An architect has told us that to make the door we will need a lintel, the wall is load bearing but the style of construction means that all the walls down there are so there won't be any realistic danger working on this. However i beleive a lintel is beyond the grasp of ourselves so if ANYONE knmows a builder who would sympathetic to our cause please help us get in contact. We can afford to pay them but not really proper builders rates. Also can anyone tell me where else i should post this for more responses?
cheers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:04 pm
Posts: 1410
hi there,
just checking you guys have got building warrants and things for this? I guess it's up to Forest if they want them or not, but if no it could get tricky in the future...
D xx

_________________
Our big brother's got no heart,
when I get my chance I'm going to punch him in the nose, in the nose, in the nose


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:08 pm
Posts: 4934
Location: edinburgh
the proposal to sound proof the cave needs more details regarding plasterboard:

our source says:
OK I can get that quote. But I need to know how many sheets. Each is 1220 by 2440 mm (or 1 meter 220 cm by 2 meters 440 cm)
Kim

soo... whats the word?

_________________
-----
www.ryanvanwinkle.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: soundproof
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
sorry for lack of contact, been on a fact finding mission to london. will get accurate measurements tomorrow. peas.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:57 pm
Posts: 769
Location: your moms house
anyone know where to get their hands on lots (hundreds) of egg cartons...they are amazing sound insulators and would look funky

_________________
It's like God's vagina!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:57 pm
Posts: 769
Location: your moms house
Scratch that idea, just read that they are only good for deadening sounds at a frequency of 9khz (or something like that)...basically someone talking...and they will burn fast and hard and the Forest will be a smouldering wreck which would not be good!

check out
http://www.soundproofing.org
for some info on, yes, you guessed it, Soundproofing

_________________
It's like God's vagina!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:57 pm
Posts: 769
Location: your moms house
Maybe we could maker a giant one of these?...or not


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
It's like God's vagina!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
ahoy, so i propose building work on the wall will begin a week tomorrow with the assistance of james' dad (experienced pro builder) for finishing on saturday afternoon/night. Any objections? Also haven't got round to measuring the cave yet as i'm a fanny but if someone already has then i could do with that info. fresh.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:46 am
Posts: 1626
The cave is 280 sq ft


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:08 pm
Posts: 4934
Location: edinburgh
sten - do you need plaster for the ceiling? that's the main bit that is annoying re: sound. i am getting a quote for the beev's number ....
r

_________________
-----
www.ryanvanwinkle.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
yeah, you need to cover every surface with insulation, creating a room in a room. sound is class at going through stuff so it has to be complete. Also there will need to be at least a couple of weeks for me and james to test all the equipment and go through the inevitable gremlins. How do people feel about that? i'll have a neoprene quote as soon as possible. Does any one know where to get cheap rockall from as that works nearly as well?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:08 pm
Posts: 4934
Location: edinburgh
ok: re sound proofing.

(sten - i can give you kim's number and maybe it will just be easier to chat. he could probably get cheap rockwall too. cheap everything from the supplier)

Questions:

Is that 280 sq ft of plasterboard you want? Please confirm the following too.
Do you want 12 or 15 mm thick board?
Sq edge or tapered?
Do you want big or small sheets?
When do you want delivery?
Do you want screws too? how many?
It would be best to talk to the joiner concerned about all this. If there is no joiner involved or if the boys don't know the answer to all these questions then i would not let them do the work.

I do hope they are not going to use nails. i would specify you want them to use short black plasterboard screws, and don't let them use any plaster to cover the screw heads. That way it will be possible to dismantle it easily.

is 280 sq feet of board you want and that the boys are strong enough to carry the sheets and will get up early enough to accept delivery and not get me a bad reputation with the supplier by 'not having got out of their beds yet.

THERE YOU GO - Questions and Caveat.

Enjoy.

_________________
-----
www.ryanvanwinkle.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:57 pm
Posts: 769
Location: your moms house
don't forget that we have billions of screws and nails in the workshop so you may want to take a look and se if there are any you can use....most of them are brand new

_________________
It's like God's vagina!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
some excellent questions! i don't have the skills to do this by myself, i had envisaged that this would be passed on to someone with more experience once it got passed the estimates stage as all i really know is the theory to makes this happen. stuff like being there to receive a delivery etc is cool and you can trust me to be there but i wouldn't be comfortable being in charge of this, if there is someone who would like to take this on then i'll give all the help i can.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:46 am
Posts: 1626
280 sq ft is just the size of the floor (or the ceiling). More measuring will be required if the walls are to be done as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:08 pm
Posts: 4934
Location: edinburgh
hey -

having thoughts about this all:

It is very important that we clear building work with our landlord as any surprising changes could negatively affect our relationship.

Bill said he will talk to Nick and this is fine with me. We can say we take full responisbility for warrents etc. and hope he will be fine but we should not start untill we have explicit consent.

ok?

As for sound proofing.

It still seems like a far off dream. what are the practicalities?
r

_________________
-----
www.ryanvanwinkle.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
The practicalities are that it is definitly feasible. It requires money time and careful planning. The neoprene world is surprisingly resistent to giving out qoutes for abnormaly large quantities of the stuff, wood and screws are free and the plasterboard will be a bit pricy. If it is all within financial reach then the next stage is to find someone with some joinery experience to lay out the slats, line with neoprene, lay out the second layer of slats and then plaster board. Thats a weekend job for 6-8 people working hard when you include moving the stuff out of the cave. Thats the major work complete. Does this sound like an unachievable task?
as for the building work that sounds eminently reasonable!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:08 pm
Posts: 4934
Location: edinburgh
hey all - what's up with this. as i said before i think it's essential that this work passes through our landlord. bill was supposed to sort that out. i hope we can see some developments soon though --- maybe after new years?

r

_________________
-----
www.ryanvanwinkle.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:43 pm
Posts: 608
i will speak weith the flav asap about the wall thing.

k.o


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
howdy all and a happy new year etc. So first things first things are looking exceedingly tidy finance wise, with as close to a confirmation as we can get to having all the funding we need with out actually having confitmation! secondly, we have decided to run the studio with a linux system. maybe we could get a time to meet a member of your tech support team to help us with that? Finally me and bill are meeting with flavin tomorrow so thats good also too. Anyone had any new good ideas?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:26 pm
Posts: 2573
Location: insitu
I like the linux idea , although it could be difficult . not sure what the best version of linux for sound is.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: edbinburgher
apparently there are a couple of versions entirely devoted to recording and editing sound. i will p.m more info to you later. when i know more!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 1798
Location: Edinburgh, UK
http://ubuntustudio.org/ is apparently rather good. there's another good media distro, the name of which escapes me atm.

_________________
hey, if you don't like it, post on the BB (so you can ask about participating for better) | MilkMiruku


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group