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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:08 pm
Posts: 4975
Location: edinburgh
Fuck fuck fuck -- the thread is closed. NOW? After I spent ages writing / thinking this.

For those who can't be bothered to read the below (largely long and boring) - here are thoughts in bullet point:

* new site. good. let people who have design skill make pretty sexxxy site for X aniversary. remove middle-men. Let people who know how to make shit look good fucking do it. Or make it easy for them to do it. One way or another. The people who have design taste, word taste, aestivate taste, need to drive the car.

* stop bickering. it is silly and unprofessional. don't take shit personally. it is the forest. your mural will get painted over. Your poetry night will become a themed cruise ship. we know this.

* talented people should be given the space to do good things. this is why magda's mural is there. it is a beacon for how we should work. give the reigns to the best most talented people we know. help and support them. facilitate. say yes. stop saying no. when did saying NO become such a fundamental part of forest? When people ask me about Forest I always define our goal as - "To Say Yes." In my mind, saying yes is our ultimate objective. You want to make a zine, yes, you want to paint a mural, yes - we'll find space, you want to host an event, yes, you want to take pictures in here, yes. yes yes yes. Yes to the good.

* i support chris and jane not because of notions of old guard or time served at forest (which, I find offensive, insulting and disrespectful but I suppose the young must want to kill the old and i suppose this is healthy) but because they have gone outside the forest and actually done many amazing brilliant beautiful things. as such, this is not be an oldy / newbie debate. Between them they have run 2 successful, curated art shows, made art, hosted stunning edgy events, garnered much praise and, generally, done things OUTSIDE the forest that proves the merit of their taste and opinions. CVs are not important if you want to get involved in Forest, but are we so up our own asses that we can't recognize our own good fortune in having talented people offering to do great shit for free? A worrying thing.

* if the collective agrees we shouldn't ditch drupl than set a deadline for getting a re-designed, hottie site up and running asap. As we go into Year X it is essential that our face is sparkling. 1 April I say. April Fools ---- Can we go that fast on a major redsign? I like joachim's attitude on this. All the coffee cake you need, guru. Should the task be worthwhile - I support piles of nachos to help make the work done.

* However, Not sure I understand the love for the complex all-powerful drupl. Chombee's points on this are, to me, the most salient. I trust him as a man who knows all the angles and understands the benefits of simplicity, economy and friendly userly-ness. In an org. full of chaos and disorder - simple seems the way to go.

* Again, maximum respect to the time and energy put into the site over the past few years. It has served us well and hopefully has been a beneficial experience for those working on it. If it seems I side with the design and aesthetic people it may be just because I don't really understand why it is great to have a powerful website like drupl. I freely admit the depth of my ignorance on this. I really just don't understand the passion and vehemece behind this debate. We all want people to click on a forest website that is attractive and inspiring, just like the space and people in it. Let's work to make that in the best, fastest, possible way.

Sorry for the lateness of this ---------

Ryan xxl

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