composting with the Cyrenians

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Shannon
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composting with the Cyrenians

Postby Shannon » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:42 am

A few months ago I was contacted by the Cyrenians (http://www.cyrenians.org.uk/) and asked to complete a survey about a composting social enterprise they are looking to set up. Yesterday they sent me the details as they stand and asked for more feedback. The details are below, but basically, once/week pickup would cost £16.71, including rental of wheelie bin, containers for the kitchen and bin liners.

We have what looks to be a thriving compost heap out back, but I am only adding raw fruit/veg scraps, coffee grinds, tea leaves and old flowers. With the Cyrenians we would be composting all organic waste (bread, scraps from unfinished meals, cheese, etc). This would of course be great.

Also, I was thinking that maybe a few people who are unable to compost at home might like to buy into getting their compost picked up at Forest? We could charge a small fee for this to help offset our costs (I don't think we'll use 50kg/week). Or, we could even look into the City of Edinburgh Waste Action grant
(http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet/En ... nt/Rubbish _waste_and_recycling/Rubbish_and_waste/Waste_Aware_Edinburgh/CEC_waste_action_grant_programme)
in order to create a central pick up point for composting? I'm not sure of the legalities on that one, but it would be worth talking to the Cyrenians about it as they've already done the research on pickups/transport/etc,

What do we think?

---

CYRENIANS COMPOSTING SOCIAL ENTERPRISE
FOOD AND CATERING WASTE COLLECTIONS

Draft of Service Proposal 18TH September 2007


GENERAL CONDITIONS OF SERVICE

1.Cyrenians Social Enterprise will provide wheelie bins to the customer (120, 240 or 660 litre) in a suitable number and combination as required by the customer. Edinburgh Cyrenians Social Enterprise will also provide kitchen caddies and a yearly provision of biodegradable caddy bin liners (5 x 52 weeks).

2.The wheelie bins provided should only be used to dispose of the waste materials as indicated below:

a)CATERING AND FOOD WASTE: cooked and raw food, including meat, fish, vegetables, fruit, peelings, pulp, food scraps and small animal carcasses.

b)The following MATERIALS must not be disposed of with catering or food waste: plastic, packaging, cutlery, tins, glass or any other not organic material.

c)Food and catering waste left in bags, boxes, loose, etc. next or nearby the bins will not be collected.

d)An additional charge will be applied should the degree of contamination should result too high for processing the waste.

3.The food waste bins will be collected by vehicles fully licensed to transport and dispose Animal by-Product wastes at a weekly frequency which will be agreed between the customer and Edinburgh Cyrenians Social Enterprise.

4.Frequency and method of payment of the service will also be agreed between the customer and Edinburgh Cyrenians Social Enterprise.

5.Waste Transfer Notes will be issued once payments are received by Edinburgh Cyrenians Social Enterprise.

PROPOSED PRICING SCHEDULE

The number of wheelie bins assigned to the customer, the logistics and the weekly frequency of collections will have to be discussed and agreed with the customer prior to the beginning of the service.
An indication of the weekly charge of the service, inclusive of wheelie bin/s and kitchen caddy rental, gate and uplift fees but not inclusive of VAT is based on the size and number of bins utilised by the customer and the frequency of the collections required as specified below.

Number of Weekly Collections 1-5

120 litre bin (max 50 kg)
£16.71
£26.77
£36.83
£46.90
£56.96

240 litre bin (max 100 kg)
£27.55
£42.65
£57.74
£72.83
£87.92

660 litre bin (max 260 kg)
£71.62
£107.58
£143.55
£179.52
£215.49

SOME IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS

Before you give us your comments, we would like you to consider the following reasons for joining our proposed scheme:

REDUCE YOUR CARBON FOOTPRINTS: All the food and catering waste collected from your premises by us will be composted, hence will NOT end in landfill, giving your business/organisation the opportunity to boost your environmental credentials and to reduce your carbon footprints.

SUPPORT YOUR COMMUNITY: By joining the Cyrenians Food Waste Collection Scheme, you would contribute to support an emerging Social Enterprise which works to better the community by giving the opportunity to disadvantaged people to have work placements and to volunteer with us. Furthermore, all the proceedings would be re-invested in the Social Enterprise, thus generating more opportunities.

REDUCE YOUR GENERAL WASTE AND COSTS: You would see that the general waste disposed of by your business/organisation will decrease as the organic part will be collected separately. This will generate cost savings to you, i.e. less/smaller bins or less frequent collections for general waste.

TOWARDS SUSTAINABILITY: The disposal of food and catering waste through composting is still more expensive than sending it to landfill, however it is much more sustainable in the long run!!!

YOUR FEEDBACK AND COMMENTS

Well, now we would like to hear what you think…

What do you think of the pricing of the service?
Would you consider it as an alternative to the current service provided to you?
____________________________________________________________________

Is the range of equipment provided such as wheelie bins, kitchen caddies and bin liners adequate in size and range and suitable to your business / organisation?
How about the terms of the service, i.e. frequency of collections?
____________________________________________________________________

Do you have any concern, comment or suggestion you would like to make?
____________________________________________________________________

Overall, would you consider joining the our Food Waste Collection Scheme?
____________________________________________________________________


Thank you in advance for your advice and support!
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Martin
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Postby Martin » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:15 pm

I like the idea of pickups to a central composting location, but the cost seems quite high, it comes out to 870 quid a year plus VAT.
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Postby Martin » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:17 pm

That said they suggest we would save by reducing our overall trade waste output, which may be true... what do we currently pay for waste disposal?
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Postby ravanwin » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:17 pm

we do pay for trade waste but it's just the bin that gets picked up once a week regardless. i suppose you may pay a cheaper rate for once every two weeks but it seems unlikely that the council would be able to manage that.

getting compost picked up is very good.

£16 p/w is quite harsh and, the question goes, are we orginized enough for it?

r
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Postby Dandolo » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:24 am

The Harlequin on Buccleuch Place may like to pitch in.
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Postby swithun » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:01 am

If we were to go for it, the cost would be an incentive to be organised. Getting people to buy space in our bin is the sort of thing Tom Sawyer would do. I'd pay a pound a week for a shopping bag's worth of compostable rubbish.

Where would we keep a nasty smelling wheelie bin? We don't want people putting their unauthorised crap in it. Can it have a lock on it?
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Postby Shannon » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:46 pm

Maybe we could get a proper storage room/space created with the money? I was thinking the space just inside the hall doors, though stuff would probably start getting stinky with only once/week pickup in the summer?
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Postby chris » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:00 pm

i thought the point of compost was that it will break down in our garden?

storing inside is a bad idea - fly infestation.

£870 seems nuts.

can someone expalin the benifit,

a) surely if we didnt compost the waste would be picked up by the council and taken to landfil where it will biodegrade - no problem there then (?)

b) if we compost then it biodegrades on our land - no probs there (apart from possible flies and vermin)

c) if we pay the compost pirates, then they take it away and it biodegrades somewhere else and we lose £870 with no benifiet ???

what am i missing????

xxx
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Postby swithun » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:50 pm

The benefit of the compost pirates taking it away is that it gets used as compost, to produce whatever the Cyrenians produce. If it went into landfill, it would biodegrade, but without helping plants to grow. We produce too much compost for our garden, but still throw away plenty of potential compost, which is a shame.

Yes - the price for this is high, and the potential for flies is there. But these bins might be fly-proof, and we might be able to reduce the cost by subletting space in the bin.
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Postby beev » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:58 pm

Compostible waste going to landfill is a problem. It does not biodegrade in the desired way, but instead reacts with the other landfill stuff and ends up producing shitloads of methane. It also leads to the production of a liquid called leachate, which can contaminate water supplies. So landfill is not a good place for this stuff .

The main benefit of the proposed system, it seems to me, is that they are claiming to deal with other food waste such as cheese which would not be appropriate in our own heap since it attracts beasts and doesn't break down terribly well if left to it's own devices. How they are doing this I don't know, but I assume they're using the bokashi method or something similar ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokashi ). I guess the other reason for doing it would be to support the Cyrenians in their venture.

Whether or not it is worth the money, I don't know. I suspect not. And I'm dubious about having the stuff on our premises. Shame, because it sounds like they are trying to do something worthwhile.
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Postby Shannon » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:32 am

We only compost a fraction of our food waste because it is in our garden and I am being very careful not to attract pests. In covered storage facilities (which is what I suspect the Cyrenians will have), you can compost anything organic because you have no worry about pests.

Things don't just biodegrade in a landfill Chris. First, there's the problem of the plastic bags we keep this stuff in. There have been studies done where scientists come along and find certain food or nappies or whatever perfectly recognisable fifty years after they've been binned. Also, if you don't divert waste, new landfills will need to be created, and no one seems to want the next one in their backyard.

But most importantly, food waste breaking down at a landfill site creates methane. This is because it breaks down anaerobically, as oxygen cannot circulate properly like it does in 'nature'. A properly maintained compost heap does the job aerobically, producing less harmful CO2. (Incidentally, cattle produce huge amounts of methane via their shit and farts - one of the many reasons meat intensive western diets are bad for global warming).

I agree that the cost is too much for us. That's why I'm trying to think of ways to offset the cost and store the bins properly. I reckon there are enough people like me, who would like to compost that can't, to make this viable if we get the storage problem figured out.
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Postby ravanwin » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:03 pm

sub-letting a bin sounds insane to me.

i like the cyinians and what they do. i even like compost.

but i do think the fee is outrageous and we end up with a lot of risk and worry and not many benefits aside from the moral / ethical ones.

how the comopst is almost as much as a copier.

madness.

r
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Postby bill » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:50 am

we could be really honest with them and say we think its cool but toomuch. how about we we buy the bin and give them a smaller pick upfee. also i could load a wheelie bin of compost a week into my van and use it as compost for a mere tenner a week. forest supplies the sealed bins. good sealed bins prevent vermin and if well sealed also flies.


not only do we not have enough space to compost all of our biodegradable materials but we don't have enough garden/gardeners to use it.

we should support cyreanins (SP)

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Postby Dandolo » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:09 pm

are we organized enough for a copier? http://www.lhc.org.uk/members/pubs/factsht/76fact.pdf
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bill
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Postby bill » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:51 pm

did you mean photocomposter?
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Postby chris » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:37 pm

nice answers to my questions peoples! i learn something a bit more!
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Postby bill » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:19 pm

so start composting in a bin and paying me?
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Postby swithun » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:37 pm

I'm cool with that. That van of yours is far too clean just now.
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Postby bill » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:10 pm

ok. roll om.
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Postby Shannon » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:17 pm

Where are you going to compost it Bill? Will you take all our cooked food, cheese and dairy?
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Postby bill » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:30 pm

i am going to create a size massive compost heap out at woodcote mains farmhouse, where i spend a good deal of my time.

i will take all food waste if that is what cryeanians will do.


i aim to properly compost stuff so that it will be used as a compost, not just broken down aerobically. proper rotation etc.
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Postby Shannon » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:47 pm

Cool, in that case I'm into it.
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bill
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Postby bill » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:51 pm

then we have an accord?
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Postby chris » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:07 am

i think we should pay bill £57 per compost pickup, plus the £4.40 its cost him to drive his van to forest.

xx
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Postby dan » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:58 am

chris wrote:i think we should pay bill £57 per compost pickup, plus the £4.40 its cost him to drive his van to forest.

xx

i think this is a silly thing to write. when people are volunteering their time you do not suddenly bring cash into the proposal. that why they are volunteers. We should cover his fuel etc that is normal.
i think we should pay kitchen volunteers £6.50 an hour backdated to August 2000. Chris Palmer should be in charge of implementing this...
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money, the root of all evil again.

Postby chris » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:15 am

bill wrote:so start composting in a bin and paying me?


my above post was a joke, relating to the fact that we are paying for compost pickup at all. and suggesting that we pay Bill (who i think is not proposing to do this for free) more than the Cyrenians (which is obviously absurd, and hence funny, cos their rate is crazy high, at £16.71 per week, so i am suggesting a much higher rate even).

i hate it when i have to explain jokes.

perhaps EUS should send Dan Gormon on a 'how to relax and enjoy jokes' workshop class.

i am not opposed to the compost thing, i was just trying to be funny. maybe i will just delete my account here altogether.
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Postby Dandolo » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:23 am

i think we have an accord, though I also think £57 is a little steep, unless Bill builds a bothy out of bread ends for us.
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Postby ravanwin » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:46 am

are we talking about about paying bill to pick up our compost? what? i need to go on a "how to interpret the bb" course.
r
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Re: money, the root of all evil again.

Postby dan » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:39 pm

chris wrote:
bill wrote:so start composting in a bin and paying me?


chris wrote:perhaps EUS should send Dan Gormon on a 'how to relax and enjoy jokes' workshop class.
I am not opposed to this. Dan Gormon can do what ever he likes...

chris wrote:i am not opposed to the compost thing, i was just trying to be funny. maybe i will just delete my account here altogether.
perhaps CP should be best on the initial 'how to relax' workshop class.

I think Bill should be compost king, it would go nicely with his 'Stig of the dump' image he is working so hard to cultivate. So Bill, if this was to happen what's your final offer?
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Postby Gandhi » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:23 pm

Fight! Fight! Fight!
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Postby bill » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:31 pm

10 pounds...like we agreed......
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Postby bill » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:32 pm

i will make about £3/4 profit from this which i will put into the kitty for the farm which i stay and where the compost goes to help pay their bills etc. so everybody can relax.
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Gaz
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Postby Gaz » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:20 am

Gormon is a Mormon
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Postby baloo » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:38 pm

hey great. But if the garden had two more bins and some concrete slabs, some manure and a comfrey yarrow and marigold ferment we could compost dead people.
Ish.
But hey Bill i'll help you dig that compost baby.
I k-now easy ways to repell unwanted rodents too.
Eh?!-EH!?
:D
Ummm......Chris was actually quite funny back there, i have to admit it.
It really gets me hot all you guys discussing compost.ooooh.....pleasure.x
So thanks.

Plus we are running out of compost space. Important facet to the jewel.
Can we get another bin? three is the magic numba.x
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Shannon
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Postby Shannon » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:16 pm

You really think we're running out? I think we just need to turn and sort out the two we have. But another bin from the council is only about a tenner... (And we could still turn and sort!)
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Postby baloo » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:23 pm

three is ideal-one in use filling up with veg scraps etc., one full up and digesting, and one full of compost ready to go.
And with worms theres no needs ta turn!
Go tiger worms!
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cyrenians composting

Postby shivam » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:49 pm

great scheme cyrenians, simple and stress free....
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baloo
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Postby baloo » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:13 pm

i said we needed a compost bin extra and now we are not composting at all...?
Ok...i bring in a bin numba 3.
Will forest refund me?
And i will perhaps pull on our compost reserve and make some space...

cool.
soon......
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Martin
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Postby Martin » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:50 am

Ok...i bring in a bin numba 3.
Will forest refund me?


How much? There's a £10/month budget allocated for the garden in the post-Leith regime.
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swithun
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Postby swithun » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:26 am

I think they are less than a tenner from the council, aren't they? If Blue thinks we need one, then go for it.
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bill
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Postby bill » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:07 pm

yes go compost in forest!
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Postby Jane » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:43 pm

Gahhh, I am going to sit with the flies and the rats and shake my head and wonder all these years and we have learned nothing...NOTHING! Well, at least it will be a fun chance to see some bloodoo magic.

Good luck compost kids, just remember not to forget all about it and go away on holiday and think that some other volunteers will take care of it, because they never do, and it all ends in tears. And tsetses.

xxxx
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Shannon
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Postby Shannon » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:20 am

Thanks for the warning Jane, but it has been going for about a year and a half now with no mishaps. And I've even left on vacation.

Blue: we have started composting again. Space was made in one of the bins. But yes, a third one would probably be good.

I have someone who will take (reasonable) amounts of finished compost away. A third bin, and a good labelling system, will probably help with this. We were having problems with stuff getting dumped in the bin that was supposed to be full and processing.
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Postby baloo » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:10 pm

that dude who made space is a nightmare.
Who was he?
The Rats love him.....i know i go on about rats and mice but compost with rodent access is so fundamentally wrong.
That guy....should not...touch compost.....
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baloo
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Postby baloo » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:11 pm

we can use the compost we make.x
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