Sign out front.

Front of House, garden etc.
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Postby lucky » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:24 pm

Bohnenflaschen!

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Postby Martin » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:45 pm


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Postby swithun » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:32 pm

Chris is correct about quite a few things.

toilets being horrible.

They are but I don't think they are a deal breaker for many.

inconsistency of food quality.

This puts me off more.

appearing shabby, messy and dirty.

See toilets.

events being self-indulgent, and low quality. (obviously not all events)

Yes.

being closed when we should be open.

Much more of an issue for paying hall users than free internet moochers.

it is no longer viewed as even slightly cool.

Where do the cool kids go now? Can we go there and ruin it so they come back to us?

poor customer service.

The fuckers get what they deserve. I only started working here because I got sold an awful cup of coffee. If it puts people off then they have failed an important moral test. Thank you, come again.

private cliquey parties.

Yes.

We could try to be more professional in all these aspects, but that means pushing the volunteers harder to be cleaner and make nicer food, saying no to people wanting to put on crap events and finding new ways to enjoy ourselves. If we try this, things will get worse before they get better.

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Postby chris » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:44 pm

some of these can be improved by spending money. others are more hard.

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Postby beev » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:10 am

This seems like an excellent and overdue discussion. My stuff, for what it is worth:

The sign is cool.

Food inconsistencey puts me right off. I hardly ever eat at forest these days as it just seems too dangerous for someone with allergies. Unfortunately this one may never be fixed as volunteers are never going to be consistent. Simplifying the menu might help, though.

Private cliquey parties suck. For a long time forest avoided these. Something changed in the past year or so. Maybe it is to do with license restrictions, or maybe it is symptomatic of a more inward-looking, less inclusive forest. Either way, not good.

The false economy is bad. We should spend to make things easier and better. I'm starting to think that paying someone to come in and clean the place for a couple of hours each morning might be a good thing.

Poor customer service: vollies do their best in a difficult situation. I'd say the real problem is customers being shitty to us, not the other way around.

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Postby Gandhi » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:05 pm

It's like God's vagina!

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Postby Jimmy Bastard » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:10 pm

Pep Up The Turmoil

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Postby Gandhi » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:33 pm

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It's like God's vagina!

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Postby beev » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:29 pm


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Postby Jane » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:25 am

I haven't eaten at the forest in an age, so I'm not personally sure about food, but I think the reason quality is much more variable now is because we have been pushing more and more towards making our own things instead of buying stuff in. We used to buy in soups, mexican burgers, VBs, falafels and sometimes even pies or pastries or something I think. Maybe it was quiche. Ew.

Making our own is good for cheapness/ease of service during the day/using local produce/organicyness

BUT

It is bad for consistency of food/workload before 12/simplcity/ordering.

KMs never used to have to make soup, curry or sandwiches as prep. Me and Tim brought in the curry/chilli as a regular option because we enjoyed doing it and wanted more cooking and it was only us that ever made it. If KMs are busy and having to rely on volunteers making currys etc, and they are doing it bad, then maybe it should only be a special, not a regular.

Also, in this bar I liked in new york they had these amazing plastic covered suburban couches that you could have peed on and it wouldn't have mattered. They are very wipe-cleanable. I would like to see us have those. Then it would be clean for shannon.

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Postby nix » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:12 am

please no plastic couches .. please.

In the words of the inimitable DM, "the Forest is like a giant livingroom in the middle of the city" and that is a good vibe, no?

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Postby chombee » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:46 pm

I just had a potato with curry, two salads and a coffee at the forest and it was fucking amazing*
I've had it with you. If I had an image of a laser gun I would absolutely position it right here in my hand...
Ha! I have a real laser absolutely positioned in my hand!

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Postby Jane » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:57 pm

you pig

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Postby ravanwin » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:43 am

back on topic (which really wasn't the topic at all but...)

Chri's suggestions:

couches - yes. Let's get rid of all our old couches and try to get new looking good ones. Why not? If you look good you feel good.

chairs: we could repaint some of our ones but also we could but some ones that are not shit and make it clear what ones should stay in the cafe (part of the trouble in everything is that so much of our stuff moves around a lot and so consistency is hard as some of the best tables and chairs move into the lobby / church)

tables: old negotiant ones are still my favourites and i think we have some decent tables. may need a sand and varnish however. I think the artwork on some is getting old as well. not too keen on new tables - would like to see them freshened up however. (anyone?)


floor: big yes. we can junk all couches and loads of chairs one sunday and paint the floor and go buy new stuff the next week. we can have a lovely few days where people will have to sit on the floor but, who cares!

Cleaning:

Ok - sure. How much money were we thinking. I made a list of regular tasks but think this would cost about £84 p/w. I am figuring 2 hour daily shifts at £6 per hour, 7 days a week. it would be nice to have the place bright and clean and so maybe this is the way forward and we can worry about other things. further, this is less stuff for Kms to worry about and so should help them do their job better. I am not against though the expense does seem high. We can advertise in house and hopefully help a friend who needs work get something happening.

Rough Cleaning list below.
Cleaning Duties: 7 Days a Week:

Daily –

clean and mop toilets and stairs to toilets
tidy couches and tables in cafe
change flowers and water
If time:
free shop
library


Weekly Tasks:

2 x week Clean and Mop Hall / Lobby & Hoover sweep and mop stairs

2 x week Cafe – wipe All surfaces and behind everything including the stage area. Mop all floors including gallery and red room.

Clean front windows

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Postby martinmckenna » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:07 pm

could we get the window professionally done at first , to get the job done properly. as i assume they have not been done for a while . also to clean the windows we need equipment to do it .

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Postby wren » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:56 pm

Re painting wooden floors:

If you don't sand them and fill the rough patches with wood filler first, my experience is that the new varnish will come right off at the rough patches. Also, it may not stick very well at the points where the old varnish is intact.

With the amount of traffic the forest gets, varnish alone isn't going to last very long--particularly when it gets wet--a couple of coats of urethane will protect it. That's a lot of floor painting and a lot of drying time.

Seems to me that if all the other excellent ideas proposed are followed and maybe rugs are scrounged to cover/protect the worst bits of floor, it being old and abused won't matter so much, and can be done well later if the huge investment of effort (and closure time) is warranted.

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Postby Martin » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:06 pm

Re couches, chairs and tables:

I agree that there are some that are just shit, which should go.

Having a nice mix of old stuff is part of the whole nice cosy ambience, though.

If I came in to see shiny new furniture everywhere I'd feel like Forest had sold out and turned into a trendy wine bar.

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Postby ravanwin » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:37 pm

i don't think you will ever come in and see shiny new furniture - that's not the point. The point is that we are supposed to be artists not sloppy pigs and a random selection of couches / chairs does look shit. i think things can look random but actually ought to be thought out and put together. i would never suggest we buy a load of new and matching couches only that we should buy ones that look good and go together well.

I have no aestetic sense but people who do have and who want to go out and get stuff should be given money and the green light.

r

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Postby beev » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:22 pm

Is it realistic to have a cleaner work 7 days a week? We all need to sleep in occasionally! I was thinking maybe day off on Mon & Thurs. Obviously not best for us to give days off at the weekend. 2 hrs a day, 5 days a week should be enough. Cleaning gets awful quick when you do it regular like.

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Postby Gaz » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:33 pm

er...you can hire more than one person!
eg. KMs

i think cleaning 7 days a week is essential.
you will make the money back because more people will want to eat here.

c'mon!

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Postby ravanwin » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:04 pm

any objections to this?

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Postby Shannon » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:02 pm

I don't want the cleaner decision being made on a thread. Sorry. I am not against it, but I do want to talk about it. Properly. I am not comfortable with moving towards more and more paid stuff. I know we have a problem with cleaning and I can definitely be persuaded that we need to pay someone because we haven't been able to solve this one, but I want to look at it in the larger context. There is the eternal quandary of how this affects our ethos as a volunteer-run establishment and what work is deemed pay worthy, but maybe more importantly, there was not much money was banked in the last month/month and a half. We are already paying much more in wages than we were last year at this time. I don't have a concept of the overall money picture right now. Combined with the uncertainty of the tenancy situation, I don't want to make anymore decisions like this until we sit down together and discuss things overall. I know there seems to be some massive push for no talk all act at the moment, but I really think we need to have this weekend away and get on the same page again...

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Postby Shannon » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:03 pm

Also: we are still without treasurer. Hopefully something will pan out soon, but we might have to offer some decent dosh for that too.

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Postby beev » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:15 am

Oh god Shannon please no! We are def suffering from too much talk and no action. We keep on putting things off until we have a meeting about it, then it gets discussed for ages and nothing gets done until another meeting, and so it goes on. We keep talking things to death. It feels like the forest has atrophied.

I realise not much money has been banked lately. I wanted to come in yesterday and do some banking but, as usual, I couldn't fit it in among other things. I do want to be a bit more on the case than I have been recently and I am trying to figure out when I can come in and get the odd thing done. I actually came in in the early morning the other day to do do some stuff but couldn't get into the cafe because of the new lock.

As for paying people, we are actually paying less people than we were 2 years ago. And I am still looking for a new treasurer. We will get one, and we may or may not have to pay them.

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Postby beev » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:40 am

Also, while I realise we may be overspending on things like wages & tax, I think the best time for a review of our money stuff is after we get a new treasurer who has some fresh enthusiasm for the role.

In the meantime, how about we take on a cleaner for a trial period of maybe 3 months. That way we can suss out if its a good thing or not.

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Postby ravanwin » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:18 pm

fyi: i am banking money on mondays now. if there is anything people wanna know about it - talk to me,

as far as paying more people: as martin mm and i were saying the other day: i'd like to pay more people to do the jobs we hate. for every man hour we spend cleainging up shit and doing mundane tasks - those are HOURS we could be spending doing cool shit that we're supposed to do.

By all means let's regroup at some point soon but, also, we need to keep our eye on the prize. Point being - we're an arts and educational charity. That's what we DO - we don't do windows.

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Postby bill » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:38 pm

the true trick tricks the tricker.


i agree with shannon. the meeting can be punchy. i would like to be there but hopefully the meeting will happen before i get back mid feb.

yes we talk.but paying people in a voluntary org is awkward and changes many things.....i find it difficult that some people are paid and other aren't.


sofas can change but i don't care. lets not spend loads of money on it. i think we should get rid of the shitters have cafe empty. check freecycle etc.....


window cleaning is easy as fuck.


x

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Postby bill » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:41 pm

often times we don't decide things because not enough people come to the approriate meetings, and the fwg don't meet enough.i say empower those who go the the meetings!


lets have a weekend away!

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Postby swithun » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:08 pm


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Postby Gandhi » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:17 pm

It's like God's vagina!

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Postby Gandhi » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:18 pm

It's like God's vagina!

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Postby beev » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:49 pm

yup, interminable debate is definitely our specialty!

we are paying a pet-trainer guy, right? why aren't we doing that job ourselves, voluntarily?

if you think windows are easy, please clean them often. thanks. same goes for the toilets. etc.

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Postby Shannon » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:27 pm

I have no idea what a pet-trainer is.

I am not going to be bullied into not talking about this. Unfortunately, I need to catch a train now.

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Postby Martin » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:19 pm

I agree this should be talked about. Whilst there is a good argument for paying people where expecting volunteer labour is unfeasible (KMs, scrubbing loos), it's a fine line. There are a lot of potential implications, including that volunteers may feel less inclined to do basic ongoing cleaning as "the cleaner will do it", it may set a precedent for other jobs people don't really like, etc etc.

When is the next FWG meeting to be?

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Postby Gaz » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:23 pm

This Thursday = 8 on the clock

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Postby beev » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:47 pm

pet-trainer?

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Postby ravanwin » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:25 pm

pet-trainer? ::: think about it.

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Postby chombee » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:26 pm

I think beev may have fallen victim to those word replacement rules that the board has? (pet trainer)

Let's see:

kitchen manager
I've had it with you. If I had an image of a laser gun I would absolutely position it right here in my hand...
Ha! I have a real laser absolutely positioned in my hand!

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Postby chombee » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:27 pm

Oh no that obviously wasn't what he tried to say. Damn, I look stupid again.
I've had it with you. If I had an image of a laser gun I would absolutely position it right here in my hand...
Ha! I have a real laser absolutely positioned in my hand!

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the cleaning job

Postby ras » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:54 pm



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