Sound Action Update!

[Alasdair K]

Hey all,

Just a quick update on my recent noodlings around the forest, for anyone who's interested, wants to help out, or feels I should quit while I'm ahead

1. The hall now has some nice equipment in it. The Carlsbro Bass head and Park 4x12 Speaker Cabinet are now connected (both previously lived in the balcony) as a bass guitar rig, while the Burman 4x12 Cabinet (also from the balcony) has an H+H Power Amp serving as a head for a guitar rig, and can be micced up using an SM57 mic or similar. Speaking of mics, between the PG52 (for kick drum) and SM57 (for snare drum) we can now get a pretty good drum sound through the PA, instead of just letting the thing echo around the room, and I strongly reccomend that anyone doing sound in the hall should mic the guitar rig and drums, and take a line out of the bass rig into the desk for best sound. If anyone wants a demonstration or advice, I'm available. I used most of this setup for the New Urban Frontier gig the other night, and was really pleased with the results.

2. The PA in the hall has been upgraded, with our slightly shagged-out subwoofer now aiding the kinda mediocre Mackie active speakers. I've typed up a note on how everything is wired, and will be bringing it in tomorrow to tape it near the desk, and maybe on the subwoofer too? More on the status of the equipment below. Also, I lowered the Mackies to more like head height, does that sound okay? If there was a good reason for them to be so high up before I'll put them back.

3. I'm bringing in a 150-odd Watt Peavey Bass Combo with a 15 inch driver tomorrow for use in the cafe. It should serve through to the end of the festival. The Beringer lives in Cave 1, the BC50 in Cave 2 and the Carlsbro half-stack in the Hall, so the Cafe is the only place that needs a bass amp.

4. A guy called Owen is coming in tomorrow to look at our broken/faulty/awry equipment. I don't know how he's going to feel about repairs/payment/etc, but the list is as follows, in rough order of importance:

- My 100W 2x12 Marshall that's been living in the cave (has gone very very very quiet and dull sounding, and is needed in the cave very much)
- 300W Mag Ashdown Bass Combo (something in the amplifier has gone, is very distorted and weird sounding)
- 500W Subwoofer in hall (produces the lows just fine, but also has a weird distorted tone that sounds like bass guitar distortion on top of everything)
- Burman cabinet (top right speaker sounds a little trebly/shagged out, but is still acceptable sounding, so lower priority)

I think that's all the stuff that anyone might want to know about. I'm in the process of clearing up the sound area in the cafe specifically, and the sound areas around the building more generally, but there isn't really much to say about that other than please keep them clean!

There's an open meeting at 4pm on Tuesday to talk over this kind of stuff, and to co-ordinate sound action around the building more generally, such as equipment purchase, action days, maybe a workshop and anything anyone wants to bring to the table. Finally, I just want to say everyones been really supportive, helpful and non-weird about me running about the place, moving things and taking keys and the like lately and I want to say a big thank you to you all

Alasdair

[Alasdair K]

I almost forgot...

I think 3 SM58-type microphones in the cafe is enough for almost everything; amps rarely need miccing down there, and drums never do. That leaves 3 vocal mics (I think...will double check tomorrow) in the hall, plus the previously mentioned SM57 and PG52 for instruments. A couple of our DIs are being looked at for repair purposes at the moment, so I'm not exactly sure how many we have operational, but I think 1 in the hall, 1/2 in the cafe is a good mix to start with. I'll make sure everything is in its right place tomorrow, and try and get a decent balance on cables and stands too. Finally, I'll make a pile of broken XLRs (post-testing) and see if wonderful people with more soldering skills than I would like to repair them or show me how

[brittonie]

you should talk to miguel re soldering and equipment repair. I'm under the impression he's pretty handy with those things

[Lien]

GoGoGO! Sound Action Team

[Alasdair K]

Thanks Brittonie, me and Miguel already had a look over a few things...and identified more accurately what was wrong with this and that...no fixes though.

More sound action:

1. The Peavey is now in the cafe. I'll leave a note on it on it's use, and I'd appreciate it if everyone took care...but otherwise, use at will.

2. I've tested almost all the XLR cables and labeled them by length (sticky note at either end). This should help engineers pick the right length of cable for the job in hand. The broken XLRs have been labeled 'broken' in a similar fashion. I'll test the other cables when I get a chance, tomorrow probably.

3. Owen came in today and looked over the 4 items mentioned previously. Their status is now:

- Burman cab...the wiring was on the verge of coming apart, and the ohmage was wrong. Also, there were only 2 nails holding the back panel on. This is now all fixed, and the unit sounds a lot better.
- The subwoofer...the driver is indeed buggered. We need a new JBL 18" 1ohm driver...I'll get on looking after costing.
- The Marshall and Ashdown are still unfortunately broken, but the problem almost definitely lies in the Ashdown's power amp.

A huge thank you to Owen!

Alasdair

P.S. Someone had moved the generic 50W combo from Cave 2 to the cafe, and the Ashdown from the Cafe to Cave 1. Please please please don't move the amps, and if you absolutely have to, put them back afterwards. If you think any of them live in the wrong places, please post on the BB. Finally, the Marshall and the Ashdown are in the Action room at the moment awaiting repair, which I'm currently pursuing. If people would like them to live elsewhere please let me know.

[dylanross]

The compressor and graphic EQ from the hall are with me and should be fully operational pretty soon.

I'd push for at least two DI's (or some stereo DI's) in the hall and cafe. Bands often come in with synths, samplers etc. with stereo outs. Laptop musicians generally have a stereo output that should be DI'd too. Useful for DJ's who prefer to be on stage as well.

I think three 58's in the cafe should be fine, as long as they stay there. It would be good to have an instrument mic there too. String and wind instruments are pretty common, and we get acoustic guitars without pick-ups all the time.

I'll try to put together a list of new equipment that we need. Alasdair (and anyone else)- if you think of anything, let me know. I think we should probably prioritise monitors at the moment since our backline is fairly solid and our PA is alright. DI's and a couple instrument mics will be on the list too. I'm going to go through mic stands and figure out how many of them aren't completely screwed too. Am I right in thinking that we're okay for cabling? We seem to have plenty of XLR's (though none were in the cafe last night?) and jacks, and I think we have plenty of phono leads for our needs.

Dylan

[Alasdair K]

That's nice to know about the compressor and EQ, I'm looking forward to having them working I think it was just the XLR inputs/outputs that were a bit dodgy. I'd agree also about the stereo DIs, I didn't think of that...if you're in the cafe today maybe we can draw up a complete list between us? Monitors, instrument mics, DIs, stands...we can maybe prioritise it as well to adapt it to whatever funding we can get, although I feel this stuff is pretty essential to good gigs, happy bands, good reputation for forest...

As for the cabling, we are indeed just fine. Plenty of XLRs and loads of jacks and phonos. The reason there weren't any for a couple of hours is that i was labeling them by length upstairs...I put 6 of a good length back in the cafe on the hooks at the back. Maybe I'll bring a couple more?

By the way, has anyone seen our beringer active DI?

[Alasdair K]

Or, should I say, shall we draw up a list of needed equipment to run over at the sound meet on tuesday?

[Martin Beer]

Re. the Park 4x12" cabinet being used for bass, are you aware that this is almost certainly a guitar cabinet and is likely to be damaged by repeated bass use? Lawrence at the NUF gig was struggling to get reasonable output without the drivers farting out. It would be a nice cab for guitar, so it seems a shame to trash it.

[Alasdair K]

As I recall, the Park comes from an era where guitar and bass cabs were fairly interchangeable - I've tested the unit out and used it at Eden festival for all the bands playing, and you could hear the thing at the back of the tent, sounding punchy and generally really good. Lawrence seemed fairly happy with it on the night - he mentioned on a low E (played loud, with lots of sub-bass in his sound) was starting to lose fundamental, which isn't quite the same thing as 'farting out'. Cheers for your input though - if we get a dedicated bass cab, I'm sure we'll swap them out. Alternatively, if our ashdown is repaired, and a guitar head is found, we'd have two guitar half-stacks and a 300W bass combo, which would be very tasty. If you have any leads on any of this I'd be grateful. In the meantime, we do the best we can with what we have.

[Stephen]

Incredible work by the way.

Last night it was noted that the pa downstairs is producing a buzz, sounds like it could be earth loop?
Might be good to check all patch cables from desk to eq/comp and also those into the power amps, to rule them out from the problem.

It might also be good to have a tidy of the power cables under the desk, i know in the past there was an issue with the lighting rig causing interference.

See you soon

[Alasdair K]

If no-one else has the time before then, this is something to look at on Monday, 5pm...we're having a sound action day I agree that hum was really annoying...Steven, would you maybe be free to show us where to start? I've never really gone digging down around the stage/power amp stuff in the cafe before.

[brittonie]

AK- much love

but we don't need you to repeat what someone already said needs doing- you are doing good work, chill just a little on the delegation- it will go a long way. xo

[dylanross]

I'll be in tomorrow morning and I'll have a look then. I know the power connection to the compressor has been a little dodgy recently, it might be that.

[Alasdair K]

Brittonie - okay, fair point

x

[brittonie]

xo <3

[dylanross]

Checked the hum yesterday morning- no sign of it through PA with everything fired up. I checked the pre's on the desk- all of them were fairly noiseless. The Behringer DI box has a very hummy sound when put through the desk. Sounds a bit like a ground hum. If this was used the other day that might have been the cause- especially if the input on stage was low and there was lots of gain at the desk.

I tidied up the leads which had been dumped all over the sound area and did a general clean. I also printed out channel tables for keeping track of inputs (not sure if these will be useful for most people but I dont want to search for scraps of paper in the kitchen when I'm working.

Again no sign of hum today during Tobias' induction (who seems very nice and a lot more knowledgeable than most of our sound inductees usually are). He'll be in touch with Daniela soon re: shadowing.

I've also just bought 7 mic stands from red dog (the 5 we budgeted for +2 that were Nix's which have been removed). Haggled down from £20 to £15 each. I know this is slightly more than we planned to pay (found them for 10 online) but we need them tonight.

[Alasdair K]

I'm popping in today to pick up the Marshall, Ashdown and the little acoustic amp that are all faulty in one way or another and cart them off to Magnum sound in Wishaw to get them fixed.

[dylanross]

Is that the laney acoustic amp? I wasn't aware there was a problem with it?

[Alasdair K]

It was breaking up horribly when played above 2-3. The repair shop just called me and told me the tweeter was blown - sounds about right.

Also, I had a thought...if we close one or both of the caves during fringe, could we use the mackies as monitors elsewhere?

[Stephen]

How is the bass bin in the hall, is it still fucked. Seem to remember it being blown, talked with alisdair, he liked the distortion but i don't think it will do, lets get it repaired and then never let anyone who is not trained use the pa again.

[ChaoticReality]

then never let anyone who is not trained use the pa again.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Sorry, couldn't really respond any other way. So many times we've tried and nobody listens. I'm not just talking about external people, I've had to say to some Forest folk before (when they were doing their own sound for their own events) that they were going to damage the PA and been told to piss off so what can you do?

[nix]

then never let anyone who is not trained use the pa again.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Sorry, couldn't really respond any other way. So many times we've tried and nobody listens. I'm not just talking about external people, I've had to say to some Forest folk before (when they were doing their own sound for their own events) that they were going to damage the PA and been told to piss off so what can you do?

I agree that in the heat of the party people want to push the PAs to the proverbial 11, and they get damaged.
The only way to prevent this is for sober, responsible people, who are at the said party, to be firm and make sure that the volume is not ear/speaker splitting. it's a hard job. Please let us party responsibly.

[brittonie]

re above - Nix

not holdin' my breath - but its good to try and reinforce that.

[Alasdair K]

The subwoofer cone is indeed knackered, and much as I liked the distortion I definitely agree it needs replacing. It specifically needs a 1ohm 18" driver that can handle up to 500W. I'll look/ask about for the replacement part, and check JBLs site.

[Stephen]

Actually the reason the sub is damaged was due to some pretty damn experimental wiring, we're talking here about a feedback loop in the order of absolute daft. If i remember right i found it with the out put wired into the desks input then wired back out to the input, what the fuck.

I'm sure with compressors we could limit the party heat problem but really recorded music is surely less of an issue than live when it comes to blowing cones.

Any way it needs fixed ASAP. We got it from reddog and we should ask them about fixing it, Chris knows more about this situation maybe he passed on some info to harry.

It would be good to get this sorted this week sometime, time is running out for august.

[Alasdair K]

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/P ... d=49&MId=3

That's the subwoofer. The broken driver unit is a "1 x JBL 2044E 460 mm (18 in) woofer". I take it I'm okay to buy in a new unit on forest expense? I know a techie who should be able to remount the unit. Sound good?

Furthermore, the H+H Amplifier/Burman Speaker Cabinet unit is now downstairs, for use by guitarists, while we wait for the amps I took over to Magnum sound to be repaired.

[dylanross]

I thought the H+H was just being brought down for your gig last night? Thought you said you'd take it back afterwards.

Dylan

[Alasdair K]

Yeah, I could take it back up if people want it there, but right now theres no guitar amp in the cafe, which is used more often for gigs. I think in the long run/fringe it would be better in the hall, but only when we have those amps back from the repair shop back.

[nix]

Is that the laney acoustic amp? I wasn't aware there was a problem with it?

just a reminder, the Wee Laney is not a Forest Item, it is on long term loan, therefore we have a responsibility to keep it in good repair.

Thanks Alasdair.

Go Sound Team!

[Alasdair K]

Thanks Nix, I'll bear that in mind.

I called Red Dog Music about that subwoofer, and it seems they're happy to fix it up for us. Would anyone be able to lend some transportation to this end? It would be hugely appreciated.

[nix]

When do you need the transport?

Red Dog will fix it free of charge?

If they are gonna charge, maybe Owen can fit it .. or I can get my good pal Wak who is a professional and will charge a wee bit, but less than the weird guy "brian of Dunfermline" that RD use.

[ChaoticReality]

If it's not too heavy, I can carry it down to Red Dog with someone.

[Alasdair K]

Kenny gave me and the sub a lift in exchange for a hand moving a few things. The repair is free of charge as the unit is within warranty. Thanks for the offer though Mike.

[Alasdair K]

Hey,

Last night's Final Hilarious Delight was awesome. Everyone seemed to have a good time, the bands were all great, and I really enjoyed doing sound. I just want to put up a quick update about some of the equipment. Rachel was very kind in giving me a lift from the third door and the lock-up, so that I could get a PA and everything together. Afterwards I was helped by some lovely friends take what we un-borrowed from the third door back to them, so that was all sorted. However, the lock-up was not in a good way for the storage of electrical equipment - there's a leak in the ceiling and water everywhere, and its cold. So I took a few fragile things back to my place until they are next needed. I can of course bring them anywhere anytime for Forest stuff, and will take them along when there's a new building. These items are:

Wharfdale active monitor
Laney acoustic guitar amp
A few SM58 mics and a SM 58A mic
A couple of broken XLRs
One small mixing desk (the one that used to live in the cave)

Best,
Ali

[martinmckenna]

Great work Al

martin

[ravanwin]

thanks Al, well spotted and sorted.

[Stephen]

Not sure why the things went back to the third door?

I was under the impression that we were taking them back due to the fact that Ed's involvement with them had ended.

What exactly did you take back there?

[Alasdair K]

I was only made aware that any of Forest's stuff was at the Third Door on the day of the event. I went along to pick the equipment up with Alex and Rachel, and we were helped by Ed (Stack) and Jhed, the main sound guy at the Third Door. The equipment had become essential to them, and was needed for gigs over the next several nights, so we agreed that we would take it back at the end of the night and give them a week or so to buy new gear before taking it off their hands permanently.

Like I say, I was only just made aware that any of this was the case, so I was trying to bring myself up to speed on the situation while not pissing anyone off, and was basically told by everyone around me that this was the thing to do. I messaged Jhed earlier today so that we can figure out a time that the stuff can be picked up again. I don't know exactly what belongs to us there, as it was brought over originally by Ed (I believe), so I've asked Ed for a complete list. In terms of the things we used on that day that were then brought back, it was (as I remember):

2 Mackie PA speakers (1 with blown tweeter)
A few XLRs
A few mics, including the 2 new electro-voice ones that are really nice
3 mic stands

Hope that clears everything up.

[martinmckenna]

Cool,

Keni made an inventory of the stuff we give to them. so it should be easy to check what to come back to us.

martin

[Alasdair K]

Great. I've sent Keni a message and I'm meeting Jhed at the Third Door tomorrow at 3pm.

[ravanwin]

so Third Door doesn't need our gear any more? seems sad to pull out just because ed is leaving. I'd not want to f anything up on those guys by putting good gear back in storage rather than letting them use it and I worry doing that may make us look petty. however, maybe they are super keen to get their own stuff etc.

[Alasdair K]

Okay, I've picked up the stuff I could carry. A lift would be very handy if we're going to get our drums, monitors, amps etc back. Ryan, I see what you're saying, but The Third Door are looking to get replacement equipment atm and Jhed was more than happy to return what's ours, seeing as we'd given him advance warning. He also kindly handed me a big box of XLRs and whatnot, some of which belong to Forest and some of which don't, as he couldn't be bothered going through and figuring out what works and what doesn't. I've done that now, and everything is organised at my flat and waiting for a new building/Forest event. Finally, if anyone has time and is good at repairing gear, I'd love to have a day dedicated to it.